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Re: Holbeach have......
Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:35 pm
by Everyweeker
The only way that a third place team would not meet the criteria is if the first or second placed teams had applied, no?
This would not relevant in our case. Points-per-game was only relevant in other years for leagues wishing to promote two clubs. After the recent relegation restructure at Step 4, I don't think this is relevant anymore.
Re: Holbeach have......
Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:43 pm
by Formic
Bobos wrote:AndyKirkup wrote:Bobos wrote:
The ruling in the FA handbook says that at the end of the season clubs at step 5 that finish top of their league will be promoted as long as they meet the criteria for promotion. If they do not then the club finishing in second place will be considered.
If the club in second place does not meet the criteria then the club in third place will be considered, but they will be tested among other clubs in the national football pyramid.
Finishing third does not guarantee a promotion place
Hope this helps
My reading of the rule disagrees with your statement. I assume you are quoting Ian Hughes rather than your own interpretation of the rules?
See:
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... 24&cad=rja
REGULATIONS FOR THE OPERATION OF THE NATIONAL LEAGUE SYSTEM 2014/15 wrote:
At the end of the Playing Season the Clubs in the bottom two places in each of
the four divisions at Step 4 administered by the Northern Premier and Southern
Leagues, together with the Clubs in the bottom three places in each of the two
divisions administered by the Isthmian League will be relegated and placed in the
most geographically appropriate League at Step 5. Irrespective of any provision
contained within the Rules the Clubs finishing in bottom position in each of the
six Step 4 divisions will be relegated and will not be reprieved. These Clubs will
be replaced by the fourteen most suitable Clubs from the Leagues at Step 5 as
determined by the LC. The suitability shall be determined as the Club finishing
in 1st position in each Step 5 League which meets the entry criteria and wishes
to be considered for promotion. In the event of the 1st placed Club not being
eligible, the Clubs finishing in 2nd or 3rd position shall be subject to the same
criteria. In usual circumstances, no more than one Club will be promoted from any
one League. The Clubs to be promoted from Step 5 will be allocated to the most
geographically appropriate division at Step 4.
Hope this helps.
I spoke to the League office this morning.
If you read further down in the section you quoted, you will see that if a third place team does not meet the criteria, then a possible reprieve would be given to a step 4 club in a relegation position.
All I'm saying is that we should not rely on finishing third to gain promotion. The least we would expect is second place, but should aim to be champions
Now I'm really confused. I'd always read that as relating to the situation when none of the top 3 met the criteria.
Re: Holbeach have......
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:12 pm
by updiamonds
That's good news that Holbeach have withdraw application. Wheels have come off.
Re: Holbeach have......
Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:22 am
by bozzer
Bobos wrote:AndyKirkup wrote:Bobos wrote:
The ruling in the FA handbook says that at the end of the season clubs at step 5 that finish top of their league will be promoted as long as they meet the criteria for promotion. If they do not then the club finishing in second place will be considered.
If the club in second place does not meet the criteria then the club in third place will be considered, but they will be tested among other clubs in the national football pyramid.
Finishing third does not guarantee a promotion place
Hope this helps
My reading of the rule disagrees with your statement. I assume you are quoting Ian Hughes rather than your own interpretation of the rules?
See:
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... 24&cad=rja
REGULATIONS FOR THE OPERATION OF THE NATIONAL LEAGUE SYSTEM 2014/15 wrote:
At the end of the Playing Season the Clubs in the bottom two places in each of
the four divisions at Step 4 administered by the Northern Premier and Southern
Leagues, together with the Clubs in the bottom three places in each of the two
divisions administered by the Isthmian League will be relegated and placed in the
most geographically appropriate League at Step 5. Irrespective of any provision
contained within the Rules the Clubs finishing in bottom position in each of the
six Step 4 divisions will be relegated and will not be reprieved. These Clubs will
be replaced by the fourteen most suitable Clubs from the Leagues at Step 5 as
determined by the LC. The suitability shall be determined as the Club finishing
in 1st position in each Step 5 League which meets the entry criteria and wishes
to be considered for promotion. In the event of the 1st placed Club not being
eligible, the Clubs finishing in 2nd or 3rd position shall be subject to the same
criteria. In usual circumstances, no more than one Club will be promoted from any
one League. The Clubs to be promoted from Step 5 will be allocated to the most
geographically appropriate division at Step 4.
Hope this helps.
I spoke to the League office this morning.
If you read further down in the section you quoted, you will see that if a third place team does not meet the criteria, then a possible reprieve would be given to a step 4 club in a relegation position.
All I'm saying is that we should not rely on finishing third to gain promotion. The least we would expect is second place, but should aim to be champions
But if we finished third we do meet the criteria so thats completely irrelevant.
I have to say it's really poor that we are unable to get a definitive answer, we don't know if we can celebrate guaranteed promotion when 3rd is mathematically secured as the rules suggest or whether we can only celebrate when second is mathematically secured as the league office says. Everyone seems to read the national league system one way apart from the league office.
Of course it is best to remove all doubt and win the championship but that could only happen after the other two.
Re: Holbeach have......
Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:17 pm
by BartonRaz
bozzer wrote:
But if we finished third we do meet the criteria so thats completely irrelevant.
I have to say it's really poor that we are unable to get a definitive answer, we don't know if we can celebrate guaranteed promotion when 3rd is mathematically secured as the rules suggest or whether we can only celebrate when second is mathematically secured as the league office says. Everyone seems to read the national league system one way apart from the league office.
Of course it is best to remove all doubt and win the championship but that could only happen after the other two.
Do you think we're going to be able to get something definitive before the game on Monday? If we can secure a top 3 finishes and promotion against Long Buckby - as now looks highly likely - it'll be a great marketing tool for us in terms of putting numbers on the gate. Not knowing is really poor.
Re: Holbeach have......
Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:39 pm
by Sid
I don't see any confusion here at all 3rd place is good enough for promotion, it's quite clear, someone at the League Office is winding people up.
Re: Holbeach have......
Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:43 pm
by Formic
Last season Peter Miller on the non-league forum did a spreadsheet for step 5 promotions which assumed the "finish in the top 3" principle and it seemed widely accepted
Perhaps the UCL are taking one last opportunity to try to mess us about before we escape their clutches. The question is whether we would trust anything they say unless the original source is the FA - remember these are the people who thought it reasonable to schedule us to finish our fixtures almost three weeks before our rivals.
Re: Holbeach have......
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:16 pm
by bozzer
I have just received confirmation from the FA and the UCL that a 1st,2nd or 3rd place finish is valid for promotion to Step 4 providing we meet the criteria (which we do).
Glad thats cleared up.
Re: Holbeach have......
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:21 pm
by SouthRushdenJFC
Now let's go and win the bloody thing!
Re: Holbeach have......
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:15 pm
by blackcountrydiamond
Totally agree....keep winning and win the title we so deserve, and win Tuesday and go on to clinch the double!!
Having said that................2 wins clinches 3rd place now....
And a single win on Bank Holiday Monday could clinch it if Holbeach were to lose any one of their games at Deeping (Tuesday), at Sileby (Saturday) or at Wisbech (Bank Holiday Monday), or if they were to draw two of them.